This week on The Spillover, hosts Sebastian Mallaby and Rebecca Patterson sit down with author and historian Anne Applebaum to discuss Europe, the ongoing war in Ukraine, and the escalating geopolitical headwinds the region faces.

Hosts:

Sebastian Mallaby, Paul A. Volcker Senior Fellow for International Economics, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

Rebecca Patterson, Senior Fellow, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR)

Guest:

Anne Applebaum, Pulitzer Prize–winning author; staff writer, The Atlantic; Senior Fellow, Johns Hopkins University

00:00 - Introduction to The Spillover
02:54 - Today’s Topics: Ukraine, Fiscal Strain, & Populism
04:00 - Ukraine Drone Tech & Battlefield Shifts
06:43 - Russian Air Terror & Drone Strikes
08:15 - Russian Sabotage & Hybrid War in Europe
12:06 - US Foreign Policy & Transactional Deals
16:26 - European Defense Doubts & NATO Anxiety
20:20 - Ukraine-Europe Defense Integration
26:01 - Gray-Zone Attacks & NATO Red Lines
27:42 - Sovereign Debt, Interest Rates, & Aid
31:34 - Transatlantic Rift & Economic Fallout
35:40 - Pro-Russia Populism: AfD & Le Pen
41:00 - European Unity & Capital Markets Union
46:24 - Final Thoughts: Rail Reform & Education

Mentioned on the Episode:

Anne Applebaum, “MAGA Is Making the World Safe for Corruption,” The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/2026/10/maga-foreign-policy/688352/

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The Spillover is a production of the Council on Foreign Relations. The opinions expressed on the show are solely those of the hosts and guests, not of the Council, which takes no institutional positions on matters of policy.